Mother Teresa Struggled With Her Faith

MattyMattyChooChoo · 08-24-2007, 09:30 AM

Jesus Christ even struggled with his faith "My God, why have you abandoned me?"

Everyone struggles with their faith. Saints throughout history have written about their struggles. Everyone struggles. It is good to read about recent potential saints and their struggles. We relate better to them because we followed their lives.

GuardChief · 08-24-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo

Jesus Christ even struggled with his faith "My God, why have you abandoned me?"

Everyone struggles with their faith. Saints throughout history have written about their struggles. Everyone struggles. It is good to read about recent potential saints and their struggles. We relate better to them because we followed their lives.

Excellent point, Matt. Of course, one would'nt expect Him to have any doubts, since presumably He knows for certain. That He struggled with the question does nothing to bolster hope.

AnimeSpirit · 08-24-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuardChief

Excellent point, Matt. Of course, one would'nt expect Him to have any doubts, since presumably He knows for certain. That He struggled with the question does nothing to bolster hope.

A life without struggle is a life with nothing to gain. No hopes, dreams, goals, amibitions, or anything that one could want or need in life. A man who has obtained everything in life, must then struggle to keep it. Even He has hopes and therefore, logically has struggles and hardships.

As Tom Hanks once said (referring particularly to baseball), "The Hard is what makes it great."

rhertz · 08-25-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnimeSpirit

As Tom Hanks once said (referring particularly to baseball), "The Hard is what makes it great."

I loved that movie, "A league of their own". Tom Hanks is my favorite actor. I even watched him on the tv show "Bosom Buddies".

Isaac-Saxxon · 08-25-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz

I loved that movie, "A league of their own". Tom Hanks is my favorite actor. I even watched him on the tv show "Bosom Buddies".

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MattyMattyChooChoo · 08-25-2007, 11:20 AM

Jesus words "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned. But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son".

Jesus was fully God and fully human. His humanity was displayed with these words as was his completion of the new covenant by quoting the words from the New Testament. Jesus wasn't just quoting for the sake of quoting. He was fully God AND fully human. Though He did not sin, He was tempted just as we are tempted.

Did you know that the documents in the Old Testament, and the New Testament were not actually written in English? The books of the New Testament were written by early Christians (aka Catholics). The current list of books of the Old and New Testaments was created in 393 A.D. at the Council of Hippo. This is the list used for the last 1700 years by Roman Catholics.

The New Testament was written by the Apostles, the first to spread the teachings of Christ. Following the same teachings and traditions of Christ through the Apostles, the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, assembled the Bible, interpreted, and translated it into the vernacular.

I find it very incredible that a Christian tradition can adopt a book of religious teaching from one Church, remove it from the context of 1200 years of study and interpretation, then tell said Church they do not know their own holy book.

This is to say that apart from the teaching and interpretation of God through the Roman Catholic Church, understanding of Biblical teachings is incomplete. You're right that we shouldn't simply take everything the "stuffed shirt" says as Gospel. The teachings of Christ through the Catholic Church are not simply "this is what you believe, end of story". The gifts of logic and reason are applied, throughout the history of the Catholic Church, to fully understand Christ's teachings, and appreciate the mysteries of God.

However, it is utter arrogance to think that each person can interpret the Bible for themselves and thus each person will have the truth. That way of thinking is nothing more than theological relativism, a practice which leads to nothing but confusion and contradiction.

Isaac-Saxxon · 08-25-2007, 11:55 AM

To many, the origin of the Bible can be summed-up as follows: "A mere translation of a translation of an interpretation of an oral tradition" - and therefore, a book with no credibility or connection to the original texts. Actually, the foregoing statement is a common misunderstanding of both Christians and non-christians alike. Translations such as the King James Version are derived from existing copies of ancient manuscripts such as the Hebrew Masoretic Text (Old Testament) and the Greek Textus Receptus (New Testament), and are not translations of texts translated from other interpretations. The primary differences between today's Bible translations are merely related to how translators interpret a word or sentence from the original language of the text source (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek).

In addition, these texts agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC.

Matty I respect your post but I do not agree with your statement. The original Hebrew and Greek text have acrostics built into them that lock in the truth. I am that I am dictated the Bible with human hands as scribes. The entire Bible is divinely inspired. This comes down to what IT is we believe as individuals. I respect your interpretation I just do not agree. I think we are both seeking truth and I know that is light years ahead of many church goers that warm the bench. I wish you the best in your quest.

rhertz · 08-27-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon

No, I really do like Tom Hanks and that baseball movie!! Just because I don't "go to the mattresses" on every post, doesn't mean I'm a fence sitter...... In fact, I hate squirrels.... Tree rats i call them...

Al Swearengen · 08-27-2007, 11:40 PM

Welcome Huldah. Your avatar is of course the stunningly beautiful Joann Whaley from the movie "Willow"! Very nice!

I'm just guessin here, but maybe Mother Teresa figured that as long as there were people sufferin in abject poverty, she herself should be poor also, so as to better understand the misery of their plight.

Just think, if Mother Teresa, Ghandi, and Billy Graham all end up in Hell, then we're all screwed...especially LateNight!

Thats why I recently got LN a book entitled "Chicken Soup for LateNight's Soul", because I happen to know for a fact that LateNight struggles with his faith, and he could sure use some of dat! Nope, no thanks be necessary...I just does what I can to helps da peoples!

Isaac-Saxxon · 08-24-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo

Jesus Christ even struggled with his faith "My God, why have you abandoned me?"

Everyone struggles with their faith. Saints throughout history have written about their struggles. Everyone struggles. It is good to read about recent potential saints and their struggles. We relate better to them because we followed their lives.

This is one of the biggest mistakes made by people because they are not willing to read for themselves. Christ when addressing "God" would say Father not God !!!!! Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. ...

this would also indicate that heaven is coming to earth and no one is going to be raptured out. The word rapture only occurs once in the Bible and is a mistranslation. Take some time to look it up !
Christ NEVER struggled with his faith NEVER !! He was teaching even up to his last words from the old testament. To say that Christ had doubt would be to bring him down as a mere mortal man and He is much, much more than that !!! Sorry here Matty this is not so much aimed at you as is people in general that will not pick up their Bible and read. Instead they let the stuffed shirt in the pulpit tell them what to think and were to send their money.

Christ was quoting the 22nd Psalm

To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

http://www.carm.org/kjv/Psalms/Psalm_22.htm

Pocahontas · 08-24-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon

This is one of the biggest mistakes made by people because they are not willing to read for themselves. Christ when addressing "God" would say Father not God !!!!! Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. ...

this would also indicate that heaven is coming to earth and no one is going to be raptured out. The word rapture only occurs once in the Bible and is a mistranslation. Take some time to look it up !
Christ NEVER struggled with his faith NEVER !! He was teaching even up to his last words from the old testament. To say that Christ had doubt would be to bring him down as a mere mortal man and He is much, much more than that !!! Sorry here Matty this is not so much aimed at you as is people in general that will not pick up their Bible and read. Instead they let the stuffed shirt in the pulpit tell them what to think and were to send their money.

Christ was quoting the 22nd Psalm

To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

http://www.carm.org/kjv/Psalms/Psalm_22.htm

Very true Isaac! Most people only know what they are taught by preachers in churches. I study the Bible on my own but still need much guidance from other sources as to help me with understanding the translations. The Sheperd's Chapel hosted by Arnold Murray is a fantastic tv program and resource. I was so surprised when I first began really listening and understanding! He's the first person that helped me make sense of the Bible.
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/:)

Isaac-Saxxon · 08-25-2007, 09:07 AM

Christianity is a reality not a religion. The Bible is written to the individual soul not the preacher. There are many great teachers of the Word but now days far and few between. The best thing is to pick up your Bible and read it and have a Concordance to help you study. I would say to any of you that attend church to listen to your preacher and just count how many verses he reads in the service. If he is teaching you will know it because he will read the Bible if not he is a bag of hot air. They skew the truth and fleece the flock. I have two verses for you that care to read.

Amos 8

11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

You know why ? People have put their Bible away and rely on a blow hard to tell them what to believe. You want to unplug from the mainframe (matrix of sorts) then start thinking for yourself the spirit will fill you and true joy will be in your heart each and every day even when bad times hit you are strong.
Pokie good post and I am not here to judge any of you I have just put a lot of time in reading and understanding. PC Bible is a great study tool that you can buy for your computer. Six Bibles and many dictionaries and concordances.
I have had my rant but it comes deep from my heart.

08-25-2007, 11:20 AM	#6
MattyMattyChooChoo Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Shreveport Posts: 86 Rep Power: 0	Jesus words "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned. But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son". Jesus was fully God and fully human. His humanity was displayed with these words as was his completion of the new covenant by quoting the words from the New Testament. Jesus wasn't just quoting for the sake of quoting. He was fully God AND fully human. Though He did not sin, He was tempted just as we are tempted. Did you know that the documents in the Old Testament, and the New Testament were not actually written in English? The books of the New Testament were written by early Christians (aka Catholics). The current list of books of the Old and New Testaments was created in 393 A.D. at the Council of Hippo. This is the list used for the last 1700 years by Roman Catholics. The New Testament was written by the Apostles, the first to spread the teachings of Christ. Following the same teachings and traditions of Christ through the Apostles, the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, assembled the Bible, interpreted, and translated it into the vernacular. I find it very incredible that a Christian tradition can adopt a book of religious teaching from one Church, remove it from the context of 1200 years of study and interpretation, then tell said Church they do not know their own holy book. This is to say that apart from the teaching and interpretation of God through the Roman Catholic Church, understanding of Biblical teachings is incomplete. You're right that we shouldn't simply take everything the "stuffed shirt" says as Gospel. The teachings of Christ through the Catholic Church are not simply "this is what you believe, end of story". The gifts of logic and reason are applied, throughout the history of the Catholic Church, to fully understand Christ's teachings, and appreciate the mysteries of God. However, it is utter arrogance to think that each person can interpret the Bible for themselves and thus each person will have the truth. That way of thinking is nothing more than theological relativism, a practice which leads to nothing but confusion and contradiction. Last edited by MattyMattyChooChoo; 08-25-2007 at 11:59 AM.

08-25-2007, 11:55 AM	#7
Isaac-Saxxon SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,421 Rep Power: 319	To many, the origin of the Bible can be summed-up as follows: "A mere translation of a translation of an interpretation of an oral tradition" - and therefore, a book with no credibility or connection to the original texts. Actually, the foregoing statement is a common misunderstanding of both Christians and non-christians alike. Translations such as the King James Version are derived from existing copies of ancient manuscripts such as the Hebrew Masoretic Text (Old Testament) and the Greek Textus Receptus (New Testament), and are not translations of texts translated from other interpretations. The primary differences between today's Bible translations are merely related to how translators interpret a word or sentence from the original language of the text source (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek). In addition, these texts agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. Matty I respect your post but I do not agree with your statement. The original Hebrew and Greek text have acrostics built into them that lock in the truth. I am that I am dictated the Bible with human hands as scribes. The entire Bible is divinely inspired. This comes down to what IT is we believe as individuals. I respect your interpretation I just do not agree. I think we are both seeking truth and I know that is light years ahead of many church goers that warm the bench. I wish you the best in your quest. __________________ Maranatha Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

08-27-2007, 11:40 PM	#9
Al Swearengen Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 849 Rep Power: 248	Welcome Huldah. Your avatar is of course the stunningly beautiful Joann Whaley from the movie "Willow"! Very nice! I'm just guessin here, but maybe Mother Teresa figured that as long as there were people sufferin in abject poverty, she herself should be poor also, so as to better understand the misery of their plight. Just think, if Mother Teresa, Ghandi, and Billy Graham all end up in Hell, then we're all screwed...especially LateNight! Thats why I recently got LN a book entitled "Chicken Soup for LateNight's Soul", because I happen to know for a fact that LateNight struggles with his faith, and he could sure use some of dat! Nope, no thanks be necessary...I just does what I can to helps da peoples! __________________ Molon Labe! Last edited by Al Swearengen; 08-28-2007 at 01:47 AM.

08-25-2007, 09:07 AM	#12
Isaac-Saxxon SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,421 Rep Power: 319	Christianity is a reality not a religion. The Bible is written to the individual soul not the preacher. There are many great teachers of the Word but now days far and few between. The best thing is to pick up your Bible and read it and have a Concordance to help you study. I would say to any of you that attend church to listen to your preacher and just count how many verses he reads in the service. If he is teaching you will know it because he will read the Bible if not he is a bag of hot air. They skew the truth and fleece the flock. I have two verses for you that care to read. Amos 8 11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. You know why ? People have put their Bible away and rely on a blow hard to tell them what to believe. You want to unplug from the mainframe (matrix of sorts) then start thinking for yourself the spirit will fill you and true joy will be in your heart each and every day even when bad times hit you are strong. Pokie good post and I am not here to judge any of you I have just put a lot of time in reading and understanding. PC Bible is a great study tool that you can buy for your computer. Six Bibles and many dictionaries and concordances. I have had my rant but it comes deep from my heart. __________________ Maranatha Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

08-24-2007, 09:30 AM	#1
MattyMattyChooChoo Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Shreveport Posts: 86 Rep Power: 0	Jesus Christ even struggled with his faith "My God, why have you abandoned me?" Everyone struggles with their faith. Saints throughout history have written about their struggles. Everyone struggles. It is good to read about recent potential saints and their struggles. We relate better to them because we followed their lives.

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