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Old 04-24-2007, 10:36 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Santabot
I don't know, because, well, I'll be dead, like the rest of you. Personally, I believe that religion is its own archaic immature attempt and holding on to life, something that nobody once or even now knows about postmortem. Have you died before? Can you tell me what this afterlife looks like? Have you ever met a person that has died before? No, because they are dead. I've read plenty of good stories, seen plenty of zombie films, this does not mean to say that I put my (whatever value it has) faith into the authenticity of that resurrected person's life.

If there were a hell, and I died now, sadly, I wouldn't be there, to all of your dismay. I was a born-again Christian once upon a time long passed, and according to you, your book, and your leaders, the change is permanent. I honestly hope I don't live on past this life, I've come to, you know, cherish the life I have, instead of being ignorant about it and trying to understand a falsity that my life will continue after death.

I recommend a few books such as Machiavelli's The Prince for your personal edification on how religion works with tyrannical societies like ours, read up, and don't take the first word for it, educate yourself and never cease. This is how you will become a better person, not by being a stagnant child and believing in archaic texts that proved no more than we can even prove now.

I am curious Santabot, I see you know secular works, have you ever read the Bible for comprehension of their beliefs?
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:36 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Neo
I am curious Santabot, I see you know secular works, have you ever read the Bible for comprehension of their beliefs?
Indeed, and from the previous misuse of scripture by various users here, and my correction, it would appear that I am somewhat more knowledgeable about the book than even some who entrust their lives in its meaning. This is a common fallacy in many religions, mostly the reason people actually do believe in it is, well, because they don't even really understand what it's saying, only what their preacher puts into words they can understand. Those who can understand it for themselves, like myself, often refute its archaic claims, because of its insanity.
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Santabot
Indeed, and from the previous misuse of scripture by various users here, and my correction, it would appear that I am somewhat more knowledgeable about the book than even some who entrust their lives in its meaning. This is a common fallacy in many religions, mostly the reason people actually do believe in it is, well, because they don't even really understand what it's saying, only what their preacher puts into words they can understand. Those who can understand it for themselves, like myself, often refute its archaic claims, because of its insanity.

You obviously consider yourself an atheist...a 17 year old atheist. Well I've got news for ya ...there are no true atheists, only those who profess atheism. I could'nt help but notice that one of the quotes you posted was by Blaise Pascal. You should look up "Pascal's Wager" when ya have the time.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santabot
Indeed, and from the previous misuse of scripture by various users here, and my correction, it would appear that I am somewhat more knowledgeable about the book than even some who entrust their lives in its meaning. This is a common fallacy in many religions, mostly the reason people actually do believe in it is, well, because they don't even really understand what it's saying, only what their preacher puts into words they can understand. Those who can understand it for themselves, like myself, often refute its archaic claims, because of its insanity.
Please show us where someone has misused it and how you are backing up that it was misused.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
You obviously consider yourself an atheist...a 17 year old atheist. Well I've got news for ya ...there are no true atheists, only those who profess atheism. I could'nt help but notice that one of the quotes you posted was by Blaise Pascal. You should look up "Pascal's Wager" when ya have the time.
I'm familiar with it, and I never professed atheism, did I?

Declaring such would submit me to claiming a particular organized religion, or loosely based one at that, of which I'm not a part of. I make my own decisions and views based on as much information as I can gather, from all angles of the deal, and from first-hand experience where applicable.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:48 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Santabot
I'm familiar with it, and I never professed atheism, did I?

Declaring such would submit me to claiming a particular organized religion, or loosely based one at that, of which I'm not a part of. I make my own decisions and views based on as much information as I can gather, from all angles of the deal, and from first-hand experience where applicable.
I sure hope ya dont think you're the first to pull that stunt. The screen name "BrainSmashR" tried the same thing...with the end result being that he is now known as either an "atheistically oriented confirmed lapsed catholic" or a "lapsed confirmed catholically oriented atheist". In short, he lost all credibility, and he's never been able to get it back! So ya may have never actually declared yourself to be an atheist, but your blatant contempt for religion, particularly Christianity and it's Bible, suggests that you are in fact an atheist. Thats why I asked you to clearly state your beliefs in an earlier post. Nobody here wants to jump thru the series of hoops you've set up to figure out where you stand. So heres your chance to clear the air and spell it out for all to see. Choose one of the following...1.You believe in God(s) "The Creator" or "The Prime Mover" etc, 2. you DONT believe in God(s), or 3. You're undecided. Pick an answer...and please TRY to stick with it for at least a week.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:49 PM   #37
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Hey Al..he's busy on another thread right now justifying his use of drugs..he won't be able to answer you for awhile.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:03 AM   #38
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LOL, you are so funny Tbelle! I wonder if someone is going to call me another ugly name for supporting you again. LOL.

Seriously, I would not waste anymore time with Santabot. He is not credible. I am moving on.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
I sure hope ya dont think you're the first to pull that stunt. The screen name "BrainSmashR" tried the same thing...with the end result being that he is now known as either an "atheistically oriented confirmed lapsed catholic" or a "lapsed confirmed catholically oriented atheist". In short, he lost all credibility, and he's never been able to get it back! So ya may have never actually declared yourself to be an atheist, but your blatant contempt for religion, particularly Christianity and it's Bible, suggests that you are in fact an atheist. Thats why I asked you to clearly state your beliefs in an earlier post. Nobody here wants to jump thru the series of hoops you've set up to figure out where you stand. So heres your chance to clear the air and spell it out for all to see. Choose one of the following...1.You believe in God(s) "The Creator" or "The Prime Mover" etc, 2. you DONT believe in God(s), or 3. You're undecided. Pick an answer...and please TRY to stick with it for at least a week.
I've stuck with #2 for the past.. 4 or so years, before that, I was a full-fledged believer, somehow. I just had various experiences and tried out new things, within reason, to question my faith (a healthy act, you should never blindly believe in something you have no reason to believe in, always question and test to make your beliefs more valid and more believable).

I'll continue to stick with that, and trust me, I won't deviate from that, hopefully for the rest of my life, but if someone of reasonable intellect that can calmly and orderly avert my views to something other than that, you deserve a box of cookies.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:08 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Santabot
I've stuck with #2 for the past.. 4 or so years, before that, I was a full-fledged believer, somehow. I just had various experiences and tried out new things, within reason, to question my faith (a healthy act, you should never blindly believe in something you have no reason to believe in, always question and test to make your beliefs more valid and more believable).

I'll continue to stick with that, and trust me, I won't deviate from that, hopefully for the rest of my life, but if someone of reasonable intellect that can calmly and orderly avert my views to something other than that, you deserve a box of cookies.
Thankyou for clearin that up.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Isabella
LOL, you are so funny Tbelle! I wonder if someone is going to call me another ugly name for supporting you again. LOL.

Seriously, I would not waste anymore time with Santabot. He is not credible. I am moving on.
It's funny only you have sought out to reply to me, yet I've never once looked for any posts by you. Why? Because I don't respect you either for the way you treat others (I read before I even registered here) and the ignorance you help spread. Making unclear statements with no evidence repeatedly and being as immature as you and some others have been here, I had found (and still haven't) found any reason to believe any claims you make.

I still haven't even gotten to know any of you well, and I still have no negative views of any of you, but you still all seem to think I'm "out to get you" and trying to impede on your ability to freely believe what you believe religiously, politically, etc.

Do so, do it all you wish, I support your decisions either way, but I would also like to put out what my education has taught me, and if someone else can stick me into a hole, I usually listen, and you may not see me change my views, but I think a lot more than most about things like this, and that's how I may appear to be well-prepared; it's just how I am.

I would be more than happy to make friends here, but I won't do that without gaining respect from members who are there to show their knowledge, true compassion (not emotionally concocted euphemisms), and reason.

I thank you all for your time in debating with me, but even if I seem to be aggressive in posting, I'm one of the calmest and clear-minded people you could meet in reality, and the odd thing is we all live so close, yet think twice passing each other on the road or anywhere else!
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Santabot
I've stuck with #2 for the past.. 4 or so years, before that, I was a full-fledged believer, somehow.
Stickin with "2." makes you an "atheist" or one who does NOT believe in God . And as I said in an earlier post, there are no true atheists, only those who profess atheism, which is what you just did.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:37 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Stickin with "2." makes you an "atheist" or one who does NOT believe in God . And as I said in an earlier post, there are no true atheists, only those who profess atheism, which is what you just did.
Yes, I am a-theistic. Without-God. I do not believe in a supreme being, if you are trying to pin me to that. I never stated once and never will state otherwise.

But I do not claim "I am an atheist" because doing so would make me related to a specific organization or loose collectivist idea to which I don't necessarily represent or uphold. I have my own personal beliefs, and those beliefs do not include a deity, yes, if that is what you want me to explain.
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Old 04-25-2007, 01:29 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santabot
I've stuck with #2 for the past.. 4 or so years, before that, I was a full-fledged believer, somehow. I just had various experiences and tried out new things, within reason, to question my faith (a healthy act, you should never blindly believe in something you have no reason to believe in, always question and test to make your beliefs more valid and more believable).

I'll continue to stick with that, and trust me, I won't deviate from that, hopefully for the rest of my life, but if someone of reasonable intellect that can calmly and orderly avert my views to something other than that, you deserve a box of cookies.
No one person is likely to ever change your view at this point. More likely personal experience as you grow older, and how they effect you, might change your mind.

I spent the first 20 years of life, 'not believing'. I was "too smart" for that. But I've changed my mind a bit about all that in the last 20 years. I've seen too much, experienced too much, to easily explain away everything.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:57 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Santabot
I'm familiar with it, and I never professed atheism, did I?

Declaring such would submit me to claiming a particular organized religion, or loosely based one at that, of which I'm not a part of. I make my own decisions and views based on as much information as I can gather, from all angles of the deal, and from first-hand experience where applicable.
Ok...you've admitted to being an atheist. Thats good...at least, its progress. Now, you say you're familiar with "Pascal's Wager". If thats true, then you know that belief in God is the only logical choice, which is to say that there really is NO choice at all. So then it follows that your current belief system, such as it is, is illogical and irrational, and could quite possibly have the gravest (no pun intended) of consequences for the ultimate disposition of your soul. Fortunately for you, theres still time to reconsider...assuming you dont kick the bucket some time today!

There! I've fullfilled my Christian duty. I'll say no more about it.
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