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Old 04-27-2007, 04:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
What would you say to explorers that are seeking the unknown
you Buzzard Brain


The Buzzard
If you put a Buzzard in a pen that is 6 feet by 8 feet and is entirely
open at the top, the bird, in spite of its ability to fly, will be an
absolute prisoner. The reason is that a Buzzard always begins a flight
from the ground with a run of 10 to 12 feet. Without space to run, as is
its habit, it will not even attempt to fly, but will remain a prisoner
for life in a small jail with no top. Blind as a brain-fart
There's a difference between searching for the unknown and searching for the bull**** someone told you.

BTW, the buzzard takes a 10-12 foot run because it's needs to stupid, not because it's a habit. Just like the Albatross, the Pelican, and all other large birds who rely primarily on their ability to soar on thermal updrafts because they lack the strength for sustained flight.

You better stick to telling lies about religion, buddy, because no one besides you thinks your smarter than me.
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
There's a difference between searching for the unknown and searching for the bull**** someone told you.

BTW, the buzzard takes a 10-12 foot run because it's needs to stupid, not because it's a habit. Just like the Albatross, the Pelican, and all other large birds who rely primarily on their ability to soar on thermal updrafts because they lack the strength for sustained flight.

You better stick to telling lies about religion, buddy, because no one besides you thinks your smarter than me.
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:44 PM   #33
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As if anyone expected you to provide an intelligent response.
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
Thank you ChooChoo You are incapable of having faith in something you can not see, taste, smell or hear.
A person cannot have faith in something they see, hear, taste, smell because it does not require faith in order to believe or know that it works or exists.

One cannot see gravity, we merely see the effects.
One cannot see the air in the sky, but it passes over and under an airplane wing, allowing it to fly.
One cannot see, smell, taste, feel the oxygen and nitrogen in the air, yet we breathe it.
One cannot see, smell, etc. Carbon Monoxide, yet it can still kill you. (The smell is actually added to the carbon monoxide so people have a warning if there is a leak.)
If you felt oxygen blown against your skin, could you tell it apart from nitrogen?

We have faith that all these are true. Some can be proven to exist by using the senses, but only with recent advances in technology, while others we can only see the effects.

God is the same way, we cannot see him, but we see effects that can only originate from Him.
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
God is the same way, we cannot see him, but we see effects that can only originate from Him.
Such as?
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
A person cannot have faith in something they see, hear, taste, smell because it does not require faith in order to believe or know that it works or exists.

One cannot see gravity, we merely see the effects.
One cannot see the air in the sky, but it passes over and under an airplane wing, allowing it to fly.
One cannot see, smell, taste, feel the oxygen and nitrogen in the air, yet we breathe it.
One cannot see, smell, etc. Carbon Monoxide, yet it can still kill you. (The smell is actually added to the carbon monoxide so people have a warning if there is a leak.)
If you felt oxygen blown against your skin, could you tell it apart from nitrogen?

We have faith that all these are true. Some can be proven to exist by using the senses, but only with recent advances in technology, while others we can only see the effects.

God is the same way, we cannot see him, but we see effects that can only originate from Him.

GREAT POST
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Such as?
To begin with, miraculous, medically unexplainable recoveries or cures of people with diseases.

Another sign of a Creator is everything that exists. (see discussion of evolution for the "unmoved mover" explanation) Some higher being had to create it. That's wonderful if we can explain how things work, but humans didn't design or create the sciences or nature. We're constantly discovering things that were in existence long before we knew anything about it.

Every day, we experience the effects of God and His love through the love we receive from other people. Who created the desire to love and be loved? Why do we have these longings? Why are we sad, happy, etc.? Who created those emotions? God did. We did not. Most people can hardly even control them.

You see the effects of God through the love shown by other people. You also see the effects of the devil through the lack of love shown by other people.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
To begin with, miraculous, medically unexplainable recoveries or cures of people with diseases.
That would fall under the realm of the unknown, not "god made it that way".
Not only do you lack the proof to support your claim, you fail to see how this attitude is detrimental to the learning process.

Unless you care to offer proof more substantial than the hearsay of your Bible......
Quote:
Another sign of a Creator is everything that exists. (see discussion of evolution for the "unmoved mover" explanation) Some higher being had to create it. That's wonderful if we can explain how things work, but humans didn't design or create the sciences or nature. We're constantly discovering things that were in existence long before we knew anything about it.
Why can't the Universe have always existed? Can you really say that concept is really any more far fetched then your idea that god snapped his fingers and made it happen? Can you offer any proof to the contrary other than the hearsay of your Bible?
Quote:
Every day, we experience the effects of God and His love through the love we receive from other people. Who created the desire to love and be loved? Why do we have these longings? Why are we sad, happy, etc.? Who created those emotions? God did. We did not. Most people can hardly even control them.
Love exists in just about every creature. It's purpose to to promote breeding and to provide as safe an environment as possible for the offspring....BTW, you aren't SUPPOSED to control your emotions just liek you aren't supposed to control the tythem of your heartbeat. They are calling INvoluntary actions
Quote:
You see the effects of God through the love shown by other people. You also see the effects of the devil through the lack of love shown by other people.
No, YOU see good and evil (man made concepts) because you were taught to be judgmental. Yeah it's a shame the lamb has to die in order for the wolf to live, but there's noting inherently good or evil about it....that's just the way life works.
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Old 04-28-2007, 07:12 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
To begin with, miraculous, medically unexplainable recoveries or cures of people with diseases.

Another sign of a Creator is everything that exists. (see discussion of evolution for the "unmoved mover" explanation) Some higher being had to create it. That's wonderful if we can explain how things work, but humans didn't design or create the sciences or nature. We're constantly discovering things that were in existence long before we knew anything about it.

Every day, we experience the effects of God and His love through the love we receive from other people. Who created the desire to love and be loved? Why do we have these longings? Why are we sad, happy, etc.? Who created those emotions? God did. We did not. Most people can hardly even control them.

You see the effects of God through the love shown by other people. You also see the effects of the devil through the lack of love shown by other people.
Very nice read Matty I think we have see the effects of the devil and lack of love shown by Legion here on this board. Evil attacks everything and anything that gets near it because evil does not understand the power of love and Christ. Matty thank you for your post it was done in very good taste Please do not let one little devil child keep you from posting on this board you sound very educated unlike demon child.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Love exists in just about every creature. It's purpose to to promote breeding and to provide as safe an environment as possible for the offspring....BTW, you aren't SUPPOSED to control your emotions just liek you aren't supposed to control the tythem of your heartbeat. They are calling INvoluntary actions


No, YOU see good and evil (man made concepts) because you were taught to be judgmental. Yeah it's a shame the lamb has to die in order for the wolf to live, but there's noting inherently good or evil about it....that's just the way life works.
Brain, many of the emotions you feel are a VOLUNTARY action. You choose to get on this board and get upset. You choose to love someone or not. You choose many days how you will feel that day. It's not involuntary. They may start off that way, but it's a conscious choice what direction they will take. It is a decision you can make. You have made a decision to feel the way that you do. You could change many of them if you choose to. Life has hardened you to many things. I get that and am sorry for you that it has. I do look forward to the day when something changes for you though and you can know wonderful joy.
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:37 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
That would fall under the realm of the unknown, not "god made it that way".
Not only do you lack the proof to support your claim, you fail to see how this attitude is detrimental to the learning process.

Unless you care to offer proof more substantial than the hearsay of your Bible......
At least I offered an explanation for these instances rather than chalking them up to "the unknown". I have my answer, your answer is a non-answer.

Quote:
Why can't the Universe have always existed? Can you really say that concept is really any more far fetched then your idea that god snapped his fingers and made it happen? Can you offer any proof to the contrary other than the hearsay of your Bible?
Logically speaking, "nihilo ex nihilo" or "nothing comes from nothing" which means every effect must have a cause. When a ball is on a flat, level surface, does it move? Tilt the surface and the ball rolls, right? What made the ball move? Gravity. How did the ball begin on the flat surface? Someone or something placed it there. It wasn't always there. Something placed it. An unmoved mover is the only logical explanation.

As rational beings, humans have discovered the secrets and mysteries of science, invented complex machines, created great works of art. That is evidence that there is such a thing as a creative being. Our ability to create mimics that of the being which created us - i.e. God.

Quote:
Love exists in just about every creature. It's purpose to to promote breeding and to provide as safe an environment as possible for the offspring....BTW, you aren't SUPPOSED to control your emotions just liek you aren't supposed to control the tythem of your heartbeat. They are calling INvoluntary actions
Love does not exist in every creature. Humans are given the gift of emotion AND rational thought. Animals are solely instinctual creatures. They are in a constant state of reacting to their environment. Love in its true form is not an emotion, it is an act. I love my wife by honoring and serving her for the rest of her natural life. It is a choice that I have made. An animal cannot choose this. Some animals are monogamous and some are not, but they do not "choose" this, they are instinctual.

If emotions are not to be controlled, then would I be justified in killing someone for taking the last slice of pepperoni pizza at the buffet? Emotions are meant to be controlled. That's what keeps you from beating your wife/kids when they make you angry. It's what keeps you from smashing your car into another when they cut you off. Your heart will beat unless you die, but you can decide not to get angry when the other driver cuts you off. You have the ability to turn the other cheek instead of hitting back.

Quote:
No, YOU see good and evil (man made concepts) because you were taught to be judgmental. Yeah it's a shame the lamb has to die in order for the wolf to live, but there's noting inherently good or evil about it....that's just the way life works.
The concepts of "good" and "evil" are not man made concepts, and they do not enter our minds because we were "taught" to be judgmental. All major cultures of the world have the same concept that killing the innocent is morally wrong. They also punish people for stealing. Why is this? Is it because they had a committee meeting one day and decided to dupe the entire world's population into being "judgmental"? Or is it because the Creator instilled them with some sense of right and wrong?

I have a hard time believing that you are completely emotionless when people are murdered, when a gunman runs through a school and kills 32 people, when your family members die, when your girlfriend/boyfriend dumps you and humiliates you in front of all your friends. Do you sit and cry in your room? Do you suck it up and fight back the tears and get on with your day? Do you simply wallow until you can't cry anymore and let your emotions change themselves?

Have you ever done anything to cheer yourself up? How about cheering someone else up? That would be considered controlling your emotions or helping others control theirs, which would go against your beliefs. Then you would not practice what you believe, and that would be wrong. But you don't believe in right or wrong, so what is it that you are feeling?
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
At least I offered an explanation for these instances rather than chalking them up to "the unknown". I have my answer, your answer is a non-answer.



Logically speaking, "nihilo ex nihilo" or "nothing comes from nothing" which means every effect must have a cause. When a ball is on a flat, level surface, does it move? Tilt the surface and the ball rolls, right? What made the ball move? Gravity. How did the ball begin on the flat surface? Someone or something placed it there. It wasn't always there. Something placed it. An unmoved mover is the only logical explanation.

As rational beings, humans have discovered the secrets and mysteries of science, invented complex machines, created great works of art. That is evidence that there is such a thing as a creative being. Our ability to create mimics that of the being which created us - i.e. God.



Love does not exist in every creature. Humans are given the gift of emotion AND rational thought. Animals are solely instinctual creatures. They are in a constant state of reacting to their environment. Love in its true form is not an emotion, it is an act. I love my wife by honoring and serving her for the rest of her natural life. It is a choice that I have made. An animal cannot choose this. Some animals are monogamous and some are not, but they do not "choose" this, they are instinctual.

If emotions are not to be controlled, then would I be justified in killing someone for taking the last slice of pepperoni pizza at the buffet? Emotions are meant to be controlled. That's what keeps you from beating your wife/kids when they make you angry. It's what keeps you from smashing your car into another when they cut you off. Your heart will beat unless you die, but you can decide not to get angry when the other driver cuts you off. You have the ability to turn the other cheek instead of hitting back.



The concepts of "good" and "evil" are not man made concepts, and they do not enter our minds because we were "taught" to be judgmental. All major cultures of the world have the same concept that killing the innocent is morally wrong. They also punish people for stealing. Why is this? Is it because they had a committee meeting one day and decided to dupe the entire world's population into being "judgmental"? Or is it because the Creator instilled them with some sense of right and wrong?

I have a hard time believing that you are completely emotionless when people are murdered, when a gunman runs through a school and kills 32 people, when your family members die, when your girlfriend/boyfriend dumps you and humiliates you in front of all your friends. Do you sit and cry in your room? Do you suck it up and fight back the tears and get on with your day? Do you simply wallow until you can't cry anymore and let your emotions change themselves?

Have you ever done anything to cheer yourself up? How about cheering someone else up? That would be considered controlling your emotions or helping others control theirs, which would go against your beliefs. Then you would not practice what you believe, and that would be wrong. But you don't believe in right or wrong, so what is it that you are feeling?
Great post and it was not a waste of time for there are many people that will read it not just the one.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasbelle
Brain, many of the emotions you feel are a VOLUNTARY action. You choose to get on this board and get upset. You choose to love someone or not. You choose many days how you will feel that day. It's not involuntary. They may start off that way, but it's a conscious choice what direction they will take. It is a decision you can make. You have made a decision to feel the way that you do. You could change many of them if you choose to. Life has hardened you to many things. I get that and am sorry for you that it has. I do look forward to the day when something changes for you though and you can know wonderful joy.

You are confusing the action that causes an emotional response with the emotion itself.

Of course I can control my exposure to subject matter I find upsetting, but that in no way shape or form means that I will never again be upset. Let me show you the error in your thinking, if someone cuts me off in traffic, is the anger I feel my fault because I chose to drive my car that day?

You see, TB, it's possible to avoid known situations, it is and most likely always will be impossible to fully control ones emotions.
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
At least I offered an explanation for these instances rather than chalking them up to "the unknown". I have my answer, your answer is a non-answer.
Precisely, Science is the seeking of knowledge, not the presumption that man already has all of the answers.

Remember me telling you this attitude was detrimental to the learning process? Thanks for proving that point beyond the shadow of a doubt, Einstein.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:33 PM   #45
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No Brain when that driver cuts you off, you have several choices. They are all choices. Yes the anger you feel is your choice because you can choose to laugh at them for being stupid and driving dangerously. You can just let it roll off your back. Or you can be mad and angry. Emotions for humans involve a whole lot of choices.
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