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Old 01-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #1
Rough Rider
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Question Where to get the REAL NEWS ?

Where to get the "real news"? I know this is a vague question. I started to add this to another thread we were discussing, but figured maybe it could use a new one.

I was talking before about how the politicians and people in this country seemed to have lost the ability for open debate on the subjects that matter in this country, WITHOUT having so much hatred for the opponent. seems any discussion is filled with 'labels', name calling, half truths etc etc etc..

I hear some folks on this message board as well as elsewhere talk of the "left wing news media" and I guess the opposite of that is FoxNews and most talk radio ?

They all appear to have their own agendas, everyone has their slant on the news.. One news source, nothing but how bad things are in Iraq. Another news source, telling you how well things are going in Iraq.

If you try to quote a news story say from Fox News, well half the country will dismiss it as simply more propaganda from the right ? Try to quote a story from the New York Times or CNN and the other half of the country will dismiss it as left wing media bias.


I will admit, I wasn't for Bush in either one of his elections. But after 9-11, sure I was behind our President 100%. I thought although what a tragedy, here is a chance for country to be UNITED, unlike it has been since WWII.
and for a time it was.

But as these last 6 years or so have progressed, this country is as divided as it has ever been. with the two sides doing nothing but Name calling, labeling, slinging half truths around like it was nothing. our current administration has learned to work the media better than any administration before it, I suspect this will be the norm from now on.

I miss the days when the possibility for an open debate had the possibility of ending in a positive solution, without the two sides making enemies of each other. I think Ronald Reagan was the last President to get this, he had the ability of reaching across 'both sides of the aisle' as it were.

I also miss the days of TRUE JOURNALISM. The media was meant to talk for the people, ask the questions that need to be asked.

I'm not a democrat, and I'm not a republican. i am a patriot, and I love this country. I've voted both ways.


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Old 01-27-2007, 06:59 AM   #2
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I also miss the days of TRUE JOURNALISM

Nice column there RR. I have my degree in journalism and the socialist party has high jacked the media. I am for the GOP on most issues and this just give peace a chance thing has not worked and will not the only thing people understand is force and that is what Regan did and that is why thing went so well for him. If you think that running from our enemies and being for abortion and tax hikes is good then that is your right as a American. There has never been a time in the history of man when there was not a war some where. So with that said carry a big stick and be ready to use it. We can not buy friends never have never will but it we kick there butt when they threaten us then they will think twice before they try it again. In the middle not for me hot or cold is good but luke warm not
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:54 PM   #3
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Rough Rider,

First I’d like to thank you for such thoughtful posts. I think it takes all kinds of people to make a good discussion, and this board seems to have wide variety of personalities (even a couple out of the old Wild West) I for one enjoy your posts even when I might not agree with every word each time. I believe that I still have an open mind and therefore I have an interest in such “intellectual” discussions. Hopefully they will stay that way instead of turning into right or left wing rants or arguments. I will try to do my part.

Quote:
Where to get the "real news"? I know this is a vague question. I started to add this to another thread we were discussing, but figured maybe it could use a new one. I was talking before about how the politicians and people in this country seemed to have lost the ability for open debate on the subjects that matter in this country, WITHOUT having so much hatred for the opponent. seems any discussion is filled with 'labels', name calling, half truths etc etc etc..
Well I think I know what you mean by “real news” which I take to mean “non-partisan” as compared to “fair and balanced” news which offers (only) “both sides” and we know too well what those two sides are. I hope that you agree that sometimes both sides can be wrong.

I think the sad truth is that there is such a deep struggle between the GOP and DNC that it polarizes most if not all information presented to the public into black-and-white, or I mean red-and-blue. Maybe it’s out of the necessity to keep it simple for us simple minded peasants. Or maybe our two party system came out of the need to keep a 3rd party from “fracturing” the vote so to speak. But whatever the reason is, it’s been this way for a long time. I voted for a libertarian once and in the end I felt like I threw away my vote rather than standing for my principles. So now I choose from the lesser of two evils so to speak.

Quote:
I hear some folks on this message board as well as elsewhere talk of the "left wing news media" and I guess the opposite of that is FoxNews and most talk radio ? They all appear to have their own agendas, everyone has their slant on the news.. One news source, nothing but how bad things are in Iraq. Another news source, telling you how well things are going in Iraq.
Well it’s like this country. Things are going well here, and bad here. It just depends on the “angle” of your story. Some people are enjoying much prosperity while others are suffering the effects of hurricanes (and politicians). A reporter can always find what they are looking for eventually.

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If you try to quote a news story say from Fox News, well half the country will dismiss it as simply more propaganda from the right ? Try to quote a story from the New York Times or CNN and the other half of the country will dismiss it as left wing media bias.
I’m not so sure that isn’t intentional as companies seek “name brand identity” and try to spin and market their shows. The companies are driven by ever increasing profits, while the news personalities by ratings. Every one is an entertainer nowadays. If their ratings don’t make it, they may be on the street looking for another job. Even the unbiased journalist in Iraq will become biased in a big hurry after witnessing first hand the horrors of war.


Quote:
But as these last 6 years or so have progressed, this country is as divided as it has ever been. with the two sides doing nothing but Name calling, labeling, slinging half truths around like it was nothing. our current administration has learned to work the media better than any administration before it, I suspect this will be the norm from now on.
Perhaps it all started with CNN’s ratings back during the first Gulf war. Since that time, our media coverage has never been the same. Or maybe since FOX news came on board. Now we have the red and blue channels 24/7/365 – two competing roosters in the hen house, always wanting to one up the other guy. Or maybe it was the Internet, which was the first time the public could really have a true form of “open debate” without having to “own the press”.

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I miss the days when the possibility for an open debate had the possibility of ending in a positive solution, without the two sides making enemies of each other. I think Ronald Reagan was the last President to get this, he had the ability of reaching across 'both sides of the aisle' as it were.
Well you make a good point. I can’t say that Clinton or Bush had that ability.


Quote:
I also miss the days of TRUE JOURNALISM. The media was meant to talk for the people, ask the questions that need to be asked. I'm not a democrat, and I'm not a republican. i am a patriot, and I love this country. I've voted both ways.
Here is one observation. One of my pet peeves is “mergers and acquisitions”. I don’t care if it is banks, radio stations, newspapers, ISP’s, or what it is, often times consumers get screwed, not always, but sometimes. Anyway perhaps M&A killed true journalism as the new corporate owners of the media are no longer individual owners or independent thinkers. If 1000 radio stations or newspapers turn into 2 or 3, surely this has an effect on “true journalism”.

LOL, but as Dennis Miller says, I could be wrong…… Thanks again for posting RR. Take care.
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Old 01-27-2007, 04:05 PM   #4
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us simple minded peasants

Enough with all the sugar. I am the one that holds the conservative line and just because I will not come to the "middle" and fold to the left I am bias wrong I am for fighting the good fight and not running from problems but running to them to get rid of them. Socialism is a cancer and the left has let them high jack there platform. When the crap hits the fan where will the bleeding hearts be ? no where to be found that is where. People we are facing a world war and this wait till we get shot at way of doing things is going to get us all killed. This and any forum is for all different views and I do not think that the middle of the road is a place for anything but fools and dead armadillos.
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Old 01-27-2007, 06:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhertz
Here is one observation. One of my pet peeves is “mergers and acquisitions”. I don’t care if it is banks, radio stations, newspapers, ISP’s, or what it is, often times consumers get screwed, not always, but sometimes. Anyway perhaps M&A killed true journalism as the new corporate owners of the media are no longer individual owners or independent thinkers. If 1000 radio stations or newspapers turn into 2 or 3, surely this has an effect on “true journalism”.

LOL, but as Dennis Miller says, I could be wrong…… Thanks again for posting RR. Take care.
I think I could have commented on several things here, but this last quote sums it up pretty well. It used to be the news, was NEVER a profit center for the networks, it wasn't about profit, it was about THE NEWS. it was a PUBLIC SERVICE. But now, as you say, it's about the ratings, it's about market share, which as you say has a definite effect on "true journalism".

So everything gets DUMBED down, into a few second sound byte. and it comes down to pick your side, and no true debate takes place.
Should someone ever come up with a genuine idea as to what to do about Iraq, the likes of some will simply shout out "Unpatriotic!" or "Socialist!" and the idea will be lost in all the noise. so we stay the course.

It's this 'you're either for us or against us' attitude that drives me crazy.
If everything was so black and white when this country got started, it never would have got off the ground.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:43 AM   #6
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It used to be the news

The idea that we should go back to three channels for our news is not good. Now that the net has made room for forums like this and many others Americans can speak out. "One World Order" is here and the days of Walter Cronkite telling us what to think is over. I would not even think of going back to the days of Dan Rather and his lies.
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Old 01-28-2007, 12:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
The idea that we should go back to three channels for our news is not good. Now that the net has made room for forums like this and many others Americans can speak out. "One World Order" is here and the days of Walter Cronkite telling us what to think is over. I would not even think of going back to the days of Dan Rather and his lies.
Isaac
Well, that's hardly what I was talking about. Yes Forums are great, virtual and real. As long as there is real and open debate. Not simple parroting of the sound bytes from everyone's favorite t.v. and radio personalities.

I know what I AM talking about is mere fairy tale. Things will never change.
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:11 PM   #8
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Enough with all the sugar.
I don’t see my views as being sugar coated. I don’t even claim to have any real answers to these issues. I merely observe and analyze things out of curiosity and a hope to learn from the past. I do believe we are headed for some well lets say “different” times ahead if we are not careful. It is almost like this country wants Iraq to be like Vietnam out of fashion or nostalgia or something. History repeats itself in the fashion world. Our fashions are now 60’s style with bellbottom jeans and low wastes etc. and some new music too. I’m just glad the fashion, times, and war are not WWII style if you know what I mean. Although I’m afraid that confronting Iran is going to happen at some point the way they are acting. Rather than “pulling out” perhaps we should be saying “re-purposing” our troops towards an Iran mission, if negotiations continue to fail. That seems like a policy that makes sense, given that many insurgents backed by Iran to begin with. Iran doesn’t seem to feel enough pressure to back off. And what else would cause them to think differently? A change of heart brought on by negotiation and talk? Well I doubt that. I’m not totally stupid.


Quote:
I am the one that holds the conservative line and just because I will not come to the "middle" and fold to the left I am bias. wrong I am for fighting the good fight and not running from problems but running to them to get rid of them. Socialism is a cancer and the left has let them high jack there platform. When the crap hits the fan where will the bleeding hearts be ? no where to be found that is where. People we are facing a world war and this wait till we get shot at way of doing things is going to get us all killed. This and any forum is for all different views and I do not think that the middle of the road is a place for anything but fools and dead armadillos.

LOL, well I’m not so far right that I’m off the road and feeling every little bump and rut. I’m in the middle of the righthand lane I guess, LOL, blending in with traffic so I don’t get pulled over!
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Old 01-28-2007, 05:18 PM   #9
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I’m not so far right that I’m off the road

I must say I am on the right but evangelicals have high jacked the GOP too. They have their head up their butt and think they can judge everybody because they are so pure and clean Morals and a clear vision is needed in the heat of the fray and Bush had that before the American voter striped that away for lack of guts to fight the good fight now we must pay the price. I will say that President Bush has held his line and will hold it even if only 30% of Americans agree. Doing the right thing has never been popular and never will be because the world thru the UN is trying to dictate to us how to run our country and the Dems are buying into it like fools. The dooms day clock may be closer than the public may think. I can only watch from the side lines and I do not think I can predict the big one but it will come one day with out a doubt.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:23 PM   #10
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The war in Iraq was sold to the American public hook, line and sinker. The propaganda thrown around leading up to the war, was done in a way this country has NEVER SEEN before. They showed us satellite pics, Collin Powell got up there and explained it all to us at the UN. They would greet us with open arms etc.. We were told we had to go in NOW OR NEVER. and we bought it.

My thoughts have always been, what happened to Afghanistan ? why did we move some troops from there into Iraq? Why did Iraq become the number one priority instead of Bin Laden ??

But hey, I'm all for some cheap oil, I couldn't stand Hussein, and he had it comin' anyway. Bottom line, I think mistakes were made going into Iraq, we thought it would be a cake walk, and it's been far from that. And of course now that we are there, I don't know that we can simply walk out without leaving a bigger cluster @#@#$

I think Iran is a bigger threat than Iraq. It bothers me the loss of American troops and American dollars towards something that I see has no end game in site.

One thing I do agree about the topic of this thread.. the name calling needs to stop, this "holding the line" and "staying the course" crap isn't cutting it either. Someone's got to make the hard decisions, and come up with a decent game plan other than "your plan sucks" and "stay the course".

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Old 01-28-2007, 06:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rough Rider
I know what I AM talking about is mere fairy tale. Things will never change.
LOL, with this statement, I will venture to disagree wity you RR. Look at what affects us daily since WWII. Say personal computers which were created by Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, etc. in their garages. I think that BIG change often comes from "grass roots" beginnings. You gotta believe something first, before it can begin to happen. Passion is contagious! Change starts by changing a few people's minds, and it can grow exponentially from that, and not be drowned out in the noise. I do think that "bi-partican politics" may be the hardest nut to crack from this standpoint, but it's possible. anything's possible.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:45 PM   #12
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LOL, with this statement, I will venture to disagree wity you RR. Look at what affects us daily since WWII. Say personal computers which were created by Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, etc. in their garages. I think that BIG change often comes from "grass roots" beginnings. You gotta believe something first, before it can begin to happen. Passion is contagious! Change starts by changing a few people's minds, and it can grow exponentially from that, and not be drowned out in the noise. I do think that "bi-partican politics" may be the hardest nut to crack from this standpoint, but it's possible. anything's possible.
All good thoughts there rhertz. I do believe that a small group of people CAN bring about big changes. Because they have in the past.
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:20 AM   #13
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"holding the line" and "staying the course" crap isn't cutting it either.

Now KT I do not think that is name calling it is a plan which the Dems do not have one just tear it down and run home. Just because I believe in something does not make it wrong. I am not making personal attacks but if the shoe fits fine but this start a war program right or wrong and leave before the job is done has been going on for the last hundred years and we always have to come back and fight another day. I was told before I started posting here not to get my feeling hurt and I have been shelled a few times no big deal and I did not take personal and you guys should not either. I hold a hard line because I believe what I say. When I see the likes of Jane Fonda and her buddies come out of the closet it is a sad day. I think Bush will do what is right no matter what the far left cry's about. I too believe that it is written in the Bible that our leaders would be acting as children. Now I try not to evoke the name of the Bible because some readers just think it is fiction and that is their right but for me not a inch of fiction in it. American a place to be free and express ones self at least for now. Now as far as the make up of this forum there are a lot more liberals by far than conservatives and hey I am just fine with that but you want your news with sugar well I do not know where to tell you to go find that. 2007 has a lot of answers waiting on us to get there.


Isaac in translation means "sons of laughter" so I love to laugh. Here is one for you to laugh at: http://www.michaelhodges.com/missing.html

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Old 01-29-2007, 09:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
Isaac in translation means "sons of laughter" so I love to laugh. Here is one for you to laugh at: http://www.michaelhodges.com/missing.html
Putting politics aside, that was still pretty funny. Sorta Monty Python-ish!
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:44 PM   #15
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Putting politics aside, that was still pretty funny. Sorta Monty Python-ish!
And now for something COMPLETELY different.
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