Is Christianity In Trouble?

[BrainSmashR]

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon

Mr. Brain,
You think you are going to "make" people admit to anything. Wrong way to approach this. There is solid evidence that takes much reading and scientific research to find. This forum is not the place to do that. Just as your very long post the other day did nothing but make people turn you off. This country is based on "Christian values" and yes faith. You have your nose so deep in the material world that you can not see the greater things that are there for you if you will only seek them out instead of putting them down. You never did say you read the Bible and telling us that your Catholic requires some faith for me to believe you. Being Catholic, Baptist or any other
man made religion is not the same as reading your Bible. Brain do you have family that believes in God ? If so do you attack them for what they believe ? I would guess not. Try reading JOB 38 & 39 just for me PLEASE ! You may think many things about me but you only know me by what I have posted and the same goes for you. If you placed as much time in seeking God as you do on this board you would be a very happy man. You want something you can hold in your hand or see with your very own eyes before you believe in God ? Well I think you should pick up your Bible and give it a read. I do not say this to put you down or sit in judgment of you or anyone as far as that goes but I can tell you it has been very good to me and you can call it what you want but you can not see the blessings until you seek your maker. I will keep you in my prayers and yes I pray each and everyday not for you to be put down but for you to be lifted up by the Holy Spirit.
God Bless
Isaac

Well there's really no way for me to respond to this garbage without being overly condescending, so I'll just paraphrase instead of responding to specific comments.

Yes I have read the entire Bible on multiple occasions. I'm not some idiot who develops opinions without any knowledge to support those opinions. Now I've got a question for you, have YOU studied any other system of beliefs besides Christianity? Or are you a typical Christian devoid of even a general understanding of alternate religions?

You see, your implication is that you think I'm ignorant because you don't think I've read the Bible while my implication is that you are ignorant because the Bible is all you've read.....

Remember, knowledge is power and ignorance is a VERY curable condition.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Well I tried to help but you will have no part so you do as you wish and I will do the same. I do not think you know how to post with out being rude. You go find your god in a "book" that you have your faith in and I will continue to find my hope and truth in the Bible. I bet your a real pleasure to be around on a daily basis. It seems you live to insult and attack people no matter who they are or what they believe to be the truth. It is like you know more than anybody I think that would be called a know it all. Isaac has tried to find even the smallest amount of common ground with the Brain but I have been denied so be it. I know by all the guest on this thread that many members are watching so if any of you out there agree with anything BSr has posted please step up and say so. If not just keep voting and that will be enough.
I would like to thank all you that emailed me in support of my post it was not a wasted email. I think if know one replies to his post in the future he will troll along to another site and find new prey to attack. It was real, it was fun but it was not real fun
Isaac

I just noticed your are -62 now you have another record to be proud of

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

That's fear of the known. We know for a fact what happens when a trains hits anything. We know what happens when fire burns, we know that a fall from just 10ft. has a 50% chance of killing someone. There is even photographic evidence to support these outcomes and enough instances to show a highly predictable pattern.

Your justification is on par with being scared of the dark because of the boogie man. An entity no rational person has ever seen, spoken to, or photographed. There is no evidence to support your beliefs and no verifiable data to suggest a predictable outcome. Your entire system of beliefs is based on faith.



Well obviously I'm not the least bit worried about your opinions or the alleged consequences of mine. After all, you think I'm lying simple because the words I speak go against your faith.......damn me and the 4-billion others on this planet who have a viewpoint that doesn't reflect Christian beliefs, right?

Or are you about to tell me heaven is full of Islamics, Jews, and Hindus because they aren't atheist.

I've never had any problem admitting that my beliefs are faith-based. You're missing the point, Brain. FEAR IS FEAR! Fear of the unknown, the known, of spiders, of enclosures, of germs...of fear itself. No matter how ya look at it, fear is fear. And since we're talking about a being so powerful it is beyond our comprehension, I think you'd be well advised to cultivate a healthy fear of Him. Might be the prudent course o action to take, eh? He is, after all, the God of the Universe, the Creator. You want proof of his existence? Take a look around you. You're walking on it, you're breathing it, eating it...you're living it! Theres your proof. Damnation...you can lead a horse to water, eh?

Per "Pascal's Wager", it should be crystal clear to you by now, Brain, that the only intelligent, rational, logical, sane choice is to believe. If you follow this line of reasoning to it's inevitable conclusion, you'll come to see that there really IS NO CHOICE! Take that leap o faith, and if He exists, you will be rewarded, if He does not exist, you've lost nothing. If you dont take that leap o faith and it turns out there IS a God, you're pretty much up **** creek, get it? See how that works? Pretty simple isnt it? Even a child can understand it. But maybe I've given you too much credit in assuming you've comprehended the concept? I'll tell ya what Brain, you dont talk like any confirmed catholic I ever knew, and Ive known a few.

Well obviously Im not the least bit worried about your opinions or the alleged consequences of mine

No? Well maybe you SHOULD be worried. Its only your soul we're talkin about here, right? Are you prepared to take that risk? Maybe its time for you to rethink your position. Your number could come up at any time...any time. Now, the Christian in me is worried FOR you, even if you're not worried for yourself...on the other hand, the fatally flawed sinner in me doesnt give a rat's ass and is perfectly content to sit back and watch as you proceed on your merry way to oblivion. Oops, looks like the sinner in me won out have a nice trip!

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

I've never had any problem admitting that my beliefs are faith-based. You're missing the point, Brain. FEAR IS FEAR! Fear of the unknown, the known, of spiders, of enclosures, of germs...of fear itself. No matter how ya look at it, fear is fear. And since we're talking about a being so powerful it is beyond our comprehension, I think you'd be well advised to cultivate a healthy fear of Him. Might be the prudent course o action to take, eh? He is the God of the universe, the creator. You want proof of his existence? Take a look around you. You're walking on it, you're breathing it, eating it...you're living it! Theres your proof. Damnation...you can lead a horse to water, eh?

Per "Pascal's Wager", it should be crystal clear to you by now, Brain, that the only intelligent, rational, logical, sane choice is to believe. If you follow this line of reasoning to it's inevitable conclusion, you come to see that there really IS NO CHOICE! Take that leap o faith, and if He exists, you will be rewarded, if He does not exist, you've lost nothing. If you dont take that leap o faith and it turns out there IS a God, you're pretty much up **** creek, get it? See how that works? Pretty simple isnt it? Even a child can understand it. Maybe I've given you too much credit in assuming you've comprehended the concept? I'll tell ya what Brain, you dont talk like any confirmed catholic I ever knew, and Ive known a few.



No? Well maybe you should be worried. Its only your soul we're talkin about here, right? Maybe its time for you to rethink your position here. Your number could come up at any time...any time. Now, the Christian in me is worried FOR you, even if you're not worried for yourself...on the other hand, the fatally flawed sinner in me doesnt give a **** and is perfectly content to sit back and watch as you proceed on your merry way to oblivion. Oops, looks like the sinner in me won out have a nice trip!

There is that sinner in all men and I too feel the "exact" same way. I want to try to be nice to this guy but the sinner in me too feels like well let the man walk on into the fire we have reached out the olive branch only to come back with teeth marks on the back of our hand. Luke 12 Lazereth and the Rich Man and if he could only go back and tell his brothers but it was written they had the Moses and the prophets and they too would not listen. I have to agree with Al "Brain, you don't talk like any confirmed catholic I ever knew, and I've known a few." ! He seems to enjoy the ways of the world and his wisdom exceeds all never admitting he is wrong. Life will deal us all its cards so Brain you feel bullet proof at 36 you are past the event horizon and just to blind to see it.
Isaac

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Check your private messages by your avatar.
Isaac

[LateNight]

Just some thoughts. While everyone here tries to persuade Brain to change his views..

Anyone who knows me well, will tell you I'm not a "religious" person. But I've been intrigued by much of the discussion here. Especially the views from Isaac and his dislike for "Organized" religion. Probably views I can relate to more than anything else. Makes me thing maybe there's hope for one such as me, cause you are not very likely to find me in a church.

Me personally, I feel that as it has been THROUGH OUT TIME.. man looks to a higher being. Be it a sun god, or what have you. Man has always looked for answers, hoping against hope there be some kind of afterlife, be it in heaven or some other paradise. Hoping against hope that when it's all over, there's something to be had other than the BIG DIRT NAP.

And now I listen to Brains arguments.. he's all about PHYSICAL proof. He's got to be able to see, feel, scientifically proven, everything before he will accept anything. And I can appreciate this. I tend to be very analytical as well. This notion of an All Powerful being just seems to incredible to be true.. I've grown up in a time, where we've gone to the moon, sent satellites to the edge of our solar system. And where scientist make new discoveries all the time. So I understand why Brain likes to throw out facts and numbers to try and prove his side of the argument.

As I get older, I've witnessed things.. terrible things.. and personally the passing of my father and TWO of my older brothers. So it would be easy for me to say how could Any god allow such things to happen. Who would make my mother have to witness such things.

But I'll tell you something else.. some years ago, I witnessed first hand the miracle that was the birth of my two children. I know first hand I've had angles on my shoulder more than a few times, where either I or friends of mine should all be dead, except for no other reason, we had angles on our side. I take comfort in knowing my brothers and father are together once again, and looking down on us all.

I can believe in the Big-Bang theory, but I still have to ask myself what came before that, and who or what is responsible. I can believe in the Big-Bang theory, but the odds of this planet forming as it has, in just the right spot, and for life to form on it.. a million things had to play out just right.

at times I envy those who are full of faith, although mine is shaky sometimes at best.. as man has done throughout time.. I hope and pray, I look to the sky for answers, take in the miracle of life around me. And try to live a good life.

It may be ol' Brain just hasn't witnessed enough. But I will not pass any kind of judgement.

[rhertz]

Al certainly has a way with words don’t he? I think “Al” is a mixture of the man behind the avatar, along with some old time values and old time ways that have a certain nostalgic appeal in modern society. At first I wasn’t so sure, but now I think he picked his avatar well to suit his beliefs. Better than I did with the Pug.

I don’t have any stats to back me up, but I heard that statistically speaking, the “Wild West” (where people bore arms regularly) was safer than today’s relatively wimpy society where guns are bad. In my humble opinion, if someone doesn’t fear God, then they better fear Smith and Wesson, or else I might have a big problem on my hands.

[BrainSmashR]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

I've never had any problem admitting that my beliefs are faith-based.

Very good, that's all I wanted to hear/read.

You're missing the point, Brain. FEAR IS FEAR! Fear of the unknown, the known, of spiders, of enclosures, of germs...of fear itself. No matter how ya look at it, fear is fear.

I see, so in your opinion, being scared of the dark is the same as the fear of being shot. Well that's simply not true.

What you are describing is a phobia, not a fear.

Phobia: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation

And since we're talking about a being so powerful it is beyond our comprehension, I think you'd be well advised to cultivate a healthy fear of Him. Might be the prudent course o action to take, eh? He is, after all, the God of the Universe, the Creator. You want proof of his existence? Take a look around you. You're walking on it, you're breathing it, eating it...you're living it! Theres your proof. Damnation...you can lead a horse to water, eh?

What you have described can easily be defined as the results of evolution....not to mention we have fossil evidence to support that theory rather than 1 book written by the single most deceptive creatures this world has ever seen.

Per "Pascal's Wager", it should be crystal clear to you by now, Brain, that the only intelligent, rational, logical, sane choice is to believe.

You sound like a common middle eastern terrorist.

If you follow this line of reasoning to it's inevitable conclusion, you'll come to see that there really IS NO CHOICE!

Are you sure your name isn't Akmed or Abdul?

Take that leap o faith, and if He exists, you will be rewarded, if He does not exist, you've lost nothing. If you dont take that leap o faith and it turns out there IS a God, you're pretty much up **** creek, get it?

Better to have lived my life a free man than to bow because of an exaggerated and irrational fear.

See how that works? Pretty simple isnt it? Even a child can understand it. But maybe I've given you too much credit in assuming you've comprehended the concept? I'll tell ya what Brain, you dont talk like any confirmed catholic I ever knew, and Ive known a few.

I see, so since I don't fit into your perfect little mold....I must be the one lying. The person you talk to everyday, the man who will answer any question you ask, RATHER than the figment of someone elses imagination that you have never seen, heard, or had what can be called a conversation (oral exchange of sentiments, observations, opinions, or ideas).

and you think I'm the crazy one......

No? Well maybe you SHOULD be worried. Its only your soul we're talkin about here, right? Are you prepared to take that risk?

Daily

Maybe its time for you to rethink your position. Your number could come up at any time...any time.

Just like I am not afraid of your god, I am not afraid of death. Although I'll admit I'm not looking forward to it, I HAVE led a good life and have spent roughly the last 3rd of it giving back to the community I took so much from during my youth.

Now, the Christian in me is worried FOR you, even if you're not worried for yourself

Yes well stop wasting your good worries on folks who don't need it. I am Catholic.....do you even understand what that means? Here's a hint, I have the best of both worlds.

...on the other hand, the fatally flawed sinner in me doesnt give a rat's ass and is perfectly content to sit back and watch as you proceed on your merry way to oblivion. Oops, looks like the sinner in me won out have a nice trip!

Who would have thought that a Christian couldn't keep his own sinful nature locked away.......certainly not anyone who posted several pages worth of atrocities committed in the name of your god.

You should have read it....I bet there was at least one group of people you would have put the sword to also, had you the legal authority to do so.`

[BrainSmashR]

Originally Posted by LateNight

Just some thoughts. While everyone here tries to persuade Brain to change his views..

Anyone who knows me well, will tell you I'm not a "religious" person. But I've been intrigued by much of the discussion here. Especially the views from Isaac and his dislike for "Organized" religion. Probably views I can relate to more than anything else. Makes me thing maybe there's hope for one such as me, cause you are not very likely to find me in a church.

Me personally, I feel that as it has been THROUGH OUT TIME.. man looks to a higher being. Be it a sun god, or what have you. Man has always looked for answers, hoping against hope there be some kind of afterlife, be it in heaven or some other paradise. Hoping against hope that when it's all over, there's something to be had other than the BIG DIRT NAP.

And now I listen to Brains arguments.. he's all about PHYSICAL proof. He's got to be able to see, feel, scientifically proven, everything before he will accept anything. And I can appreciate this. I tend to be very analytical as well. This notion of an All Powerful being just seems to incredible to be true.. I've grown up in a time, where we've gone to the moon, sent satellites to the edge of our solar system. And where scientist make new discoveries all the time. So I understand why Brain likes to throw out facts and numbers to try and prove his side of the argument.

As I get older, I've witnessed things.. terrible things.. and personally the passing of my father and TWO of my older brothers. So it would be easy for me to say how could Any god allow such things to happen. Who would make my mother have to witness such things.

But I'll tell you something else.. some years ago, I witnessed first hand the miracle that was the birth of my two children. I know first hand I've had angles on my shoulder more than a few times, where either I or friends of mine should all be dead, except for no other reason, we had angles on our side. I take comfort in knowing my brothers and father are together once again, and looking down on us all.

I can believe in the Big-Bang theory, but I still have to ask myself what came before that, and who or what is responsible. I can believe in the Big-Bang theory, but the odds of this planet forming as it has, in just the right spot, and for life to form on it.. a million things had to play out just right.

at times I envy those who are full of faith, although mine is shaky sometimes at best.. as man has done throughout time.. I hope and pray, I look to the sky for answers, take in the miracle of life around me. And try to live a good life.

It may be ol' Brain just hasn't witnessed enough. But I will not pass any kind of judgement.

1. Child birth is not a miracle. It's the result of a meeting between egg and sperm AND the result is the same for every single sexually reproducing creature on this planet.

2. The Big Bang is a theory.....is it so hard to believe that the universe simply could have always existed? Hasn't their god always existed?

3. I understand what you are saying about the existence of life on this planet. What about the meteorite discovered in 1996 with signs of microbial life from mars? While it hasn't be confirmed to BE evidence of life, they certainly can't disprove it either.....isn't that one of the religious justifications....that we can't prove god doesn't exist?

Simply put, just because WE are the only form of intelligent life that WE know about.....that's doesn't make Earth the sole location for life in the universe. For instance, there IS underwater volcanic activity on Io, one of the moons of Jupiter. The exciting phenomenon here is that there are life forms on Earth that have developed around underwater volcanic vents that have never been exposed to sunlight or even warmth from the sun. The problem, how do we get to Io (approximately 372,000,000 miles), burrow through hundreds of feet of ice, then get a submarine down low enough to examine their volcanic vents for forms of life.....all without any mishaps since we can't simply pull into a dock or orbiting space station for repairs.

Understand why our knowledge of the solar system much less the entire universe is so limited?

[scarlett]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

1. Child birth is not a miracle. It's the result of a meeting between egg and sperm AND the result is the same for every single sexually reproducing creature on this planet.

I would feel that most people think child birth is a miracle. The meeting of an egg and sperm then creating a human being is a miracle.

You are just a very difficult person and love to argue. You have your opinions and everyone else has theirs. I would still think that most would disagree that this is not a miracle.

I do feel for you whether you would like me to or not.

[LateNight]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

1. Child birth is not a miracle. It's the result of a meeting between egg and sperm AND the result is the same for every single sexually reproducing creature on this planet.

Well.. I ain't an idiot, and I understand how it all works. But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you don't have any kids, but hey, I could be wrong too. Still I would beg to differ. The site of my wife holding our new born baby was nothing short of miraculous. So we'll agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

3. I understand what you are saying about the existence of life on this planet. What about the meteorite discovered in 1996 with signs of microbial life from mars? While it hasn't be confirmed to BE evidence of life, they certainly can't disprove it either.....

And maybe life on this planet was formed by the mass exodus of creatures from mars Millions of years ago. Some questions are too big for us to ask, or to at least expect answers for any time soon.

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

Simply put, just because WE are the only form of intelligent life that WE know about.....that's doesn't make Earth the sole location for life in the universe. For instance, there IS underwater volcanic activity on Io, one of the moons of Jupiter.

I understand about Io, shoot I'd love for them to find some form of fossils or the like on Mars as well. Finding some form of life, be it fossils, bacteria or another sentient being on another planet.. This doesn't change my faith or belief, or keep me from asking the bigger questions.

It's a big world, it's a wonderful world, and I've experienced some crazy ****. I can't simply explain it all away with science and numbers. Who knows.. just maybe the jokes on you

[BrainSmashR]

Originally Posted by scarlett

I would feel that most people think child birth is a miracle. The meeting of an egg and sperm then creating a human being is a miracle.

You are just a very difficult person and love to argue. You have your opinions and everyone else has theirs. I would still think that most would disagree that this is not a miracle.

I do feel for you whether you would like me to or not.

I don't hate or even dislike you at all Scarlett.

I don't judge a person's worth by their words, but rather by their actions......and you and I simply don't know each other in real life, therefore it's practically impossible for you to do something I would find offensive....unless of course you think your opinion matters when I'm going through something highly emotional, life altering, and devastating, like losing a girlfriend AND being the prime suspect in her murder. That's why I have no use for Isabelle....she never called me guilty, but she certainly was less that sympathetic. In fact, I'd go as far as to say she will respond to this post with something to the extent of it was MY fault.....even knowing shes on my ignore list. She's one of those people who cares more about what others think than about doing the right thing. It was fun to ridicule Tracy and be a part of the "in crowd"...forget that his life was falling apart and getting worse by the minute. That won her a spot on my ignore list....and as I stated, she won't let this slide because what you think about her is more important than what she does.

Now, as far as child birth being a "miracle".....maybe our definitions of what constitutes a miracle differ here. In my opinion, a "miracle" is something which has no scientific explanation. Conception, the resulting pregnancy and child birth all have scientific explanation and can be replicated on any corner of the globe....Immaculate conception would be a miracle.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

Well there's really no way for me to respond to this garbage without being overly condescending, so I'll just paraphrase instead of responding to specific comments.

Yes I have read the entire Bible on multiple occasions. I'm not some idiot who develops opinions without any knowledge to support those opinions. Now I've got a question for you, have YOU studied any other system of beliefs besides Christianity? Or are you a typical Christian devoid of even a general understanding of alternate religions?

You see, your implication is that you think I'm ignorant because you don't think I've read the Bible while my implication is that you are ignorant because the Bible is all you've read.....

Remember, knowledge is power and ignorance is a VERY curable condition.

I have studied other religions and in dept more than you could ever know Sir ! You are acting like a idiot with your mean spirited post. Now you say all I have read is the Bible and this does sound like you are "ignorant" ! You are the one that sits in the judgment seat and a good offence is your best defense so when your all knowing attitude over loads your ass you take to attacks and insults when there are nice people on this board that have tried to be nice to you but oh no you will not have that. Nobody is trying to be your best friend You say you want to make me admit that your right that is a great way to get you point across. Most everybody wants to have hope in something and it is a "choice" and just because you paste dictionary pages to prove your point does not make you right.When you make your case on other "peoples" findings this still does not make you right. You are a very vain person to think so highly of yourself and even if you have a valid point it is lost with your arrogance and condescending approach to the subject at hand.Ignore list ? Are you hiding from someone or something ? You truly are a very sad lot and all that is left is to pity you for the miserable wretch that you are!
Isaac

[AnimeSpirit]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

Now, as far as child birth being a "miracle".....maybe our definitions of what constitutes a miracle differ here. In my opinion, a "miracle" is something which has no scientific explanation. Conception, the resulting pregnancy and child birth all have scientific explanation and can be replicated on any corner of the globe....Immaculate conception would be a miracle.

I understand your position on this topic. I agree that as childbirth, in itself, is easily explanable on a scientific basis and thus is not a miracle. It's true that conception has not only been explained, but observed through a microscope. There is nothing miraculous about this process.

However, the feelings you experience when that moment happens to you is nothing short of miraculous. The miracle in childbirth, though not the process itself, is how this simple process can bring an immeasurable degree of happiness and joy into the lives of two lovers. How does the extraction of a large collection of accumulated chromosomes and proteins bring such a powerful wave of unparalleled joy to the very heart of your soul when you first peer into the new child's eyes? Simple! Because it's a baby, new life, and not merely a collection of chromosomes and proteins. Like any other gift in our world, it is not gift itself, but the feeling that it gives you inside. This is the miracle of childbirth.

[rhertz]

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR

unless of course you think your opinion matters when I'm going through something highly emotional, life altering, and devastating, like losing a girlfriend AND being the prime suspect in her murder. That's why I have no use for Isabelle....she never called me guilty, but she certainly was less that sympathetic.

Whoa, wait a minute, did I miss something? You're a murder suspect? Did I read that right? You must be jerking everyone's leg here. If you are serious, and if you are innocent, then you really need to try harder to make friends here on earth. And if you are guilty, then you really need to try harder to make friends in heaven. In other words, either way, I'd be praying my @ss off!

You’re joking right? Does your attorney know you are chatting about it on the Internet? This just doesn’t seem real, especially considering your past radical religious posts. But if you are serious, my apologies, I’m not asking you to prove it. A man is innocent until proven guilty, and maybe you just like giving the authorities lots to read!